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RGB Truly Canon with the Movies?
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Doc Ryedale
Ghosthead
Joined: Nov 02, 2002
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 Posted: Mar 27, 2003 7:12 PM
*Round of Applause for Veedramon*    
You are a TRUE Genius Veedramon! That's a great timeline and theorys you have. I have some questions, though. When was GB II made into a movie in The RGB's Universe? And how did it happen? What do you think it was like? And Did Dan Aykroyd and Harold Ramis write the movies? And What about Ivan Reitman? That wasn't him in Take Two was it?
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"We're on a mission from God!"
"Hey, do you believe in God? Well I do. Praise the Lord and pass the Particle Throwers! I love Jesus' style. . . "
"Back off, man, I'ma Genealogist!"
They don’t just call them The Real Ghostbusters for no reason! Take a look at Take Two, Citizen Ghost, The Ghostbusters Omnibus Timeline, THE GHOSTBUSTERS FACT LIST, and RGB Truly Canon with the Movies?, and you’ll see why!
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Dr Spectrum
Ghosthead
Joined: Feb 01, 2003
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Posted: Mar 27, 2003 9:29 PM
Bravo Veedramon! I think I'll adhere to this theory of yours.
The only flaw I can think of is that in "Something's Going Around", I believe, Janine says to Peter something along "you've been catching ghosts for two years now..."
There might be others, of course...
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"Mmmmmmm... Stay Puft marshmallow man!"
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Veedramon
Ghosthead
Joined: Feb 03, 2003
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Posted: Mar 28, 2003 7:02 AM
I thank you all for your compliments.
I know the conjectural timeline isn't perfect, and I never claimed it was. But remember: literally dozens of writers were involved in the cartoon, and they can't be expected to agree on every little fact. as I mentioned, the Okudas were a big influence on my "Ghostbuster Timeline", and like them I followed the concept that one years worth of stories averages out to one year's worth of "real time".
I admit I haven't watched "Something's Going Around" since, well, it premiered on ABC (I avoided it in reruns--Louis Tully gives me hives except in GB1), and is troubling, especially as it was written by Len Jansen and Chuck Menville, the show's story editors from Season Two on...
Possible Explaination#1: The entire RGB canon to that point is compressed into two years
Problem: "Something's Going Around" appears to take place after the battle with Vigo (aforementioned Louis Tully is in it). We *know* GB1 and GB2 are five years apart.
Possible Explaination#2: The timespan between GB1 and the end of Season 3 (the Ghostbusters going out of buisness for the first time) was only two years. It's workable, though it makes those two years even buisier. As it is, they're mucho busy in 1984-1985; with two ABC seasons and 65 syndicated episodes they have a big adventure every ten days or so for two years, and that could wear a boy out. Though come to think of it, Season Three is awful short, and might not throw the average off too much.
But I'm glad you pointed that out
On the movies in the RGB continuity: placing GB1 was easy because they did it for us. I assume that after the battle with Gozer, paranormal enthusiast Dan Aykroyd wanted to make a movie about the Ghostbusters, and he convinced Columbia to wave a lot of money in Venkman's face to secure the rights. Based on "Take Two" Aykroyd's involvement, or at the very least the fact that he'd play Ray, was unknown to the Ghostbusters until they came to watch some actual filming. Harold Ramis polished the script, and Bill Murray did a bang-up portrayal of Peter Venkman even though he "looked nothing like (him)"
GB2: Placing it most literally would place it's premiere around the middle of Season Four. Again, perhaps Venkman and Louis sold the rights for quick cash to help rebuild the company. A sloppy contract could've even meant that the movie took more creative license with what "really" happened (in RGB terms) than the first, what with the Ecto-1a and the two fingered logo, which appeared in GB2 but nowhere in RGB.
(To digress, there's a hilarious short story on Shiela Paulson's sight, "Wrath of a Redhead" by Mary Morris, which has Janine stalking Ramis and Aykroyd to get revenge for GB2)(http://members.aol.com/morrisjeff/rgb/redhead.html)
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--Dr. Fritz V. Baugh, Mad Scientist and Official Historian of Ghostbusters: West Coast Division
Also known as GBCentral's Doc Fritz
Visit The Digibusters Ectozone, home of the Ghostbusters Omnibus Timeline!!!!! and the New Ghostbusters Timeline!. The Ectozone is a member of the GB Community Board
Also visit The Ghostbusters Fact List!
And read one of my Fan Fictions Pretty Please?
Egon and Janine Forever!!!
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brian_reilly
Ghosthead
Joined: Jan 18, 2002
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Posted: Mar 28, 2003 3:50 PM
Wow Veedramon. That's really awesome!
If I may offer a little help on the GB2 dillemma:
-GB2 occurs in the Real Ghostbusters universe in NOW Comics "The Real Ghostbusters Starring in Ghostbusters 2" 3 part mini series. See this link for a look at the series.
-The NOW comics mini series came out three months before Ghostbusters 2 as stated on the above website. This is not entirely true. The first issue came out 3 months before Ghostbusters 2 came out, the third issue did not hit stands until the movie was in theatres. This may create some confusion, however, you must remmeber that the events portrayed in NOW comics are always slightly behind the "actual" occurrence of the event, so, while this may require a slight reworking of the comics timeline, Ghostbusters 2 happened in the Real Ghostbusters universe a year earlier, that is to say that the battle with Vigo ended on Jan 1, 1988. Thus a quick script was thrown together by Peter, and he and Louis quickly sold it to Sony/Columbia for some much-needed cash.
-The movie's creators changed the date to a year later so that they weren't releasing an outdated flick.
-This, however, fudges the fact that GB2 occurs 5 years after GB1, because it now occurs 4 years in the "Real" universe. This is okay, however, as it can also be said that Ivan Reitman fudged the date at the beginning of GB2 purposelly because the movie (not the actual events) took place 5 years after GB1.
EDIT: Peter did not throw together a script, but a summary of events.
_____________
Canadian Ghostbuster
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brian_reilly
Ghosthead
Joined: Jan 18, 2002
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Posted: Mar 28, 2003 3:56 PM
Oh yeah, it's stated in XGB/EGB that The Real Ghostbusters broke up because the had totally cleansed the city of ghosts.
_____________
Canadian Ghostbuster
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-Now part of a Community Owned Message Board!
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Veedramon
Ghosthead
Joined: Feb 03, 2003
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Posted: Mar 28, 2003 4:52 PM
Hey...nice to see I'm not the only one putting probably waaay too much thought into these things...
I had thought of moving both movies back a year further each (1982 and 1987/88) but figured I was already pushing my luck flying in the face of the Conventional Wisdom that the battles with Gozer and Vigo "happened" in 1984 and 1989/90. It would allow more time for the scripts to be written and the features to be filmed, but again moves the events further away from when they were "revealed". Moving GB2 back and fudging the "five years later" might be a good compromise. It still leaves a year (late 1986-1987) away from Ghostbusting (two if I follow my own suggestion to accept RGB Seasons 1-3 compressed into two years) I'm not promising anything, but I'll think about it.
And I am indeed aware of the Now Comics (I mention them often, most notably in the "Janine" thread (http://www.ghostbusters.net/disscussion/ghn/1/128480/15/).) I even have them but they're very very buried in my room...but I enjoy telling people about how John Tobias, character designer on the early Mortal Kombat games, and Phil Hester, who's become quite hot because of Green Arrow, both drew for the series! Great stuff I thought...I hope maybe Red Ketchup keeps James Van Hise in mind if he needs a pinch hitter.
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--Dr. Fritz V. Baugh, Mad Scientist and Official Historian of Ghostbusters: West Coast Division
Also known as GBCentral's Doc Fritz
Visit The Digibusters Ectozone, home of the Ghostbusters Omnibus Timeline!!!!! and the New Ghostbusters Timeline!. The Ectozone is a member of the GB Community Board
Also visit The Ghostbusters Fact List!
And read one of my Fan Fictions Pretty Please?
Egon and Janine Forever!!!
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brian_reilly
Ghosthead
Joined: Jan 18, 2002
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Posted: Mar 28, 2003 7:14 PM
Having Ivan Reitman fudge the "5 years later" is the way to do it if you decide to go the route of my solution. Moving both movies back a year pushes everything back too far. That would make NOW's comics a year behind the actual events as well!
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Canadian Ghostbuster
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-Over 70 super-high quality Ghostbuster images for your usage!
-Instruction manuals for GB videogames!
-The most complete Ghostbusters Price Guide ever!
-The entire Real Ghostbusters Soundtrack in MP3 form!
-Ghostbusters and Ghostbusters II Shooting Scripts!
-Now part of a Community Owned Message Board!
-Too much to list!
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Doc Ryedale
Ghosthead
Joined: Nov 02, 2002
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Posted: Mar 28, 2003 8:35 PM
Wow! You guys are great! You two should be on this project with Red Ketchup! Anyways, I knew about the RGB "starring in GB II" NOW Comics already. But what's your theories on why The "Actors" in GB II didn't wear RGB uniforms? Wouldn't they have worn them, like the RGB's did? And why do you think they had the Ecto-1A, when the RGB's didn't?
This reminds me of the theory that Veedramon had about the Nametags in RGB. They were there, and noticed by people in the RGB Universe, but not noticed by people watching on T.V., except for that one episode that He mentioned, where Sherlock Holmes pointed to Egon's nametag, and mentioned it. The same theory probably applies to the Proton Packs/Ghost Traps.
_____________
"We're on a mission from God!"
"Hey, do you believe in God? Well I do. Praise the Lord and pass the Particle Throwers! I love Jesus' style. . . "
"Back off, man, I'ma Genealogist!"
They don’t just call them The Real Ghostbusters for no reason! Take a look at Take Two, Citizen Ghost, The Ghostbusters Omnibus Timeline, THE GHOSTBUSTERS FACT LIST, and RGB Truly Canon with the Movies?, and you’ll see why!
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Dr Spectrum
Ghosthead
Joined: Feb 01, 2003
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Posted: Mar 28, 2003 9:12 PM
If we go with the "REAL" side of things then the "Real Ghostbusters Starring in Ghostbusters II" is the way to go. That would explain the uniforms: they did use the RGB ones as seen in the miniseries but weren't portrayed like that in the movie, quite simply.
I do not have the comic but the date should be as given there (if any) also.
However, there's the "first day of the last decade..." or something. And that's Jan 1990 (some would even say 1991). Yes, GB2 itself was set a little into the future.
I've got it! All those psychics from the show and Ray's occult books actually helped to predict the Vigo incident, and so the first movie ever "based on future events" was filmed. Of course it actually happened to the RGB's shortly afterwards.
What do ya think?
_____________
"Mmmmmmm... Stay Puft marshmallow man!"
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Veedramon
Ghosthead
Joined: Feb 03, 2003
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Posted: Mar 29, 2003 5:54 PM
Okay...as I've mentioned before, the Now comics are very very buried in my room (though I'm closer and closer to planning a massive excavation) but my memories were clarified a little last night when I found this websight: http://www.geocities.com/griffinrivera/index.html. If you have or find some of them, look in the letter columns of issues 22, 24, and Vol.2 No.1. There's a guy called Fritz Baugh who's verbose comments may seem strikingly familiar
According to it, the GB2 comics are dated Oct-Dec 1989, and were probably released (due to the vagarities of comic distribution) about three months earlier than the cover/indicia date (July-Sept 1989, though I keep thinking #1 made it out in June)
I don't recall the line about "first year of the last decade" being in the movie itself: I do remember it from promos, though, and can be chalked up to more of Reitman "playing" with the "real" events.
Yes, in the RGB universe they would wear the multicolored uniforms. Reitman or somebody decided to stick with the grey/tan ones to be closer to the first movie, or even, like quite a few Ghostheads in the real world, just liked them better But in the RGB version, the question is--how canonical is the two-fingered logo and the Ecto-1a? My two possible answers...
The first one I mentioned above, and to be honest just kind of came up with it as I typed it: they were part of Reitman and Aykroyd's "fudging" of events to make it "new and cooler"
The second is that the two-finger Spooky and the Ecto-1a "did" occur. AS far as the logo, we could either a) pretend, like the nametag issue, that they're "really"
wearing those instead of the GB1 logo in Season Four on...or b) for whatever reason they go back to the original after the battle with Vigo ("But Doctor Venkman the old logo is legendary and really well known and..." "I get the point, Louis, so SHUT UP!!!")
My theory on the Ecto-1a may have no resemblance to New York vehicle codes, but here it goes: the original Ecto-1 does indeed breathe it's last and is replaced. But because the original is still registered as "Ecto-1" Ray comes up with the name "Ecto-1a". Then, right after New Year's, the old Ecto-1's registration expires, and they renew the Ecto-1a as simply "Ecto-1". (It's one idea actually vaguely supported by XGB--their version of Ecto-1 included some design elements from the 1a, such as the radar dish and the logo on the hood) Opinions? (And I don't mean XGB slams, please...)
And on a different note...
You two should be on this project with Red Ketchup!
Doc, you don't know what that compliment means to me. I once dreamed (hell, still do) of being a comic writer and artist, and the Ghostbusters were/are one of my dream projects. I even admit to being quite jealous of Red Ketchup, El Diablo, and LeadSlinger
_____________
--Dr. Fritz V. Baugh, Mad Scientist and Official Historian of Ghostbusters: West Coast Division
Also known as GBCentral's Doc Fritz
Visit The Digibusters Ectozone, home of the Ghostbusters Omnibus Timeline!!!!! and the New Ghostbusters Timeline!. The Ectozone is a member of the GB Community Board
Also visit The Ghostbusters Fact List!
And read one of my Fan Fictions Pretty Please?
Egon and Janine Forever!!!
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ProtonDefender
Ghosthead
Joined: Feb 10, 2002
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Posted: Mar 29, 2003 6:11 PM
Veedramon, I love yours ideas, but I am one of those annoying fans who likes RGB, but does not count it as actually happening. When I think of Ghostbusters I think of the movies and the personalities of Dan Aykroyd, Bill Murray, and Harold Ramis. To me the spirit of GB goes beyond the movies and is captured in other movies such as "Trading Places" "Stripes" and MIB, but that's from a comedy stand point. I am in NO WAY putting down your hard work, I LOVE IT. Some fans prefer to have the entire GB universe connected, while others see it as divided. I personally see it as divided and am a die-hard movie fan first, then cartoon, with there being no connection. But I would love to see a concise file of your work on a site someday, covering all movies and cartoons. Thanks for keeping Ghostbusters fun and interesting to talk about!
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brian_reilly
Ghosthead
Joined: Jan 18, 2002
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Posted: Mar 29, 2003 8:56 PM
Wow Doc, that means a lot to me too. I myself am an aspiring artist and writer. Thanks for the compliment.
And Veedramon, you've done such a great job with this. Although I've also put togethre a few documents here and there about how they fit together, I do not have the benefits of owning all of NOW's comics, and I was too young to rememeber any episodes I don't have. In any case, keep up the good work, and I'll help you out in any way that I can!
_____________
Canadian Ghostbuster
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-Instruction manuals for GB videogames!
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-The entire Real Ghostbusters Soundtrack in MP3 form!
-Ghostbusters and Ghostbusters II Shooting Scripts!
-Now part of a Community Owned Message Board!
-Too much to list!
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Doc Ryedale
Ghosthead
Joined: Nov 02, 2002
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Posted: Mar 29, 2003 9:31 PM
Wow! More Brilliant theories!
It's great to hear these brilliant threories you guys have. If "It' needs anyone else, you guys definetely are the ones to choose.
I just remembered about that deleted scene at the end of GB II, (Which was also deleted from NOW's RGB GB II  ), where the GB's and Dana talk about their ancestors. I'll have to check my GB II script, and post that info tomorrow.
_____________
"We're on a mission from God!"
"Hey, do you believe in God? Well I do. Praise the Lord and pass the Particle Throwers! I love Jesus' style. . . "
"Back off, man, I'ma Genealogist!"
They don’t just call them The Real Ghostbusters for no reason! Take a look at Take Two, Citizen Ghost, The Ghostbusters Omnibus Timeline, THE GHOSTBUSTERS FACT LIST, and RGB Truly Canon with the Movies?, and you’ll see why!
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Dr Spectrum
Ghosthead
Joined: Feb 01, 2003
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Posted: Mar 29, 2003 11:46 PM
Veedramon - I might have an explanation for the "five years later". You'd only need to change your timeline a bit.
Fact: Take Two ends at the movie's premiere (released June '84)
Fact: season 1 is bigger than all the following seasons combined.
Fact: Take Two goes at the end of Season 1.
So it's not unreasonable that all pre-GB2 episodes happened along the years 1983-1984, as in the "time-compressed mode" you propose.
Thus "five years later" in 1989 would refer to the cease of all ghostbusting activities in 1984, not just the Gozer incident.
_____________
"Mmmmmmm... Stay Puft marshmallow man!"
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brian_reilly
Ghosthead
Joined: Jan 18, 2002
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Posted: Mar 30, 2003 4:32 PM
I think that the GB2 logo is part of the movie, not the "Real" universe. To say that the Real Ghostbusters are wearing the GB2 logo in season four, when you can clearly see that they are not, is just a bad idea (in my opinion).
_____________
Canadian Ghostbuster
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-The entire Real Ghostbusters Soundtrack in MP3 form!
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-Now part of a Community Owned Message Board!
-Too much to list!
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